nasaforums.com

Official Forums of the National Auto Sport Association
It is currently Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:06 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Splitting class
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:00 pm 
Offline
Forum Time Trialer
Forum Time Trialer

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 227
Location: redwood city, california
Hey you have no choice right!



B Esquire wrote:
No confusion here. Spec series or no, everyone complains, and since we have different models running in our spec series, people will complain.

My point is right now I don't see any real complaining going on or heard anyone say they won't run in Spec Z unless the 07-08's are not allowed. But maybe you have heard something I have not.

This class is struggling for car counts right now, turning people away will only hurt that right? I think everyone realizes that it is in everyone's best interest to grow the series right now, or it will eventually loose support and fizzle and die as a LOT of club series do. Then we will all be stuck with car builds that won't be worth much.

I am excited to run against an HR engine in my 03, always more satisfying to beat someone with handling than with power. Take it as a challenge and lets go beat up some heavy HR cars! :).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Splitting class
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:20 am 
Offline
Forum Hot Lapper
Forum Hot Lapper

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:49 pm
Posts: 133
If you are going to propose splitting up the class, please provide concrete data to support your claim that the HR car has a clear advantage over the other platforms. Without data, your claim of "running them together is BS" is BS in itself. Could you at least describe your experience racing against various Spec Z platforms?

Ideally, a spec class would only consist of cars with the exact same engine, weight, and chassis configuration. As you say, this would be perfect. However, Spec Miata, 944-Spec, CMC, Spec E30, etc are examples of imperfect spec classes, as there as differences throughout all the eligible model years. Over time their rules have been revised, based on solid data, to maximize parity within them. Spec Z is no exception, and we as drivers should always make the effort to compare data, swap cars, etc, to find out what these differences are and revise the rules if necessary.

Since 2012 I have raced against 11 different cars, consisting of 6 HR, 2 Rev-up and 3 DE engines. There has not been one race where I have felt I did not win because of a clear performance gap in the cars. Traqmate data I have seen from the top three cars at Nationals 2012 also supported this.

I would also like to address the following: "As it is this series will only be good for z lovers, anyone who is just looking to race and not worry about bs, will go somewhere else." After racing 944-Spec for seven years, my decision-making process was quite objective: fast, reliable, inexpensive parts, similar power-to-weight ratio, and the cheapest donor car must be nationally competitive. No BS here. Again, the class is not perfect, but with over 30 Spec Z's either being raced or being built across the country, we've got something good here.

I think discussing the differences in the eligible years is not damaging to the growth of the class. Like with any new series, people would like to understand the differences before they spend the money on a donor. However, comments such as, "J must be a great driver, because everyone else looks, darn slow" are damaging and unnecessary in these discussions.

_________________
David Dirks
Spec Z #76
Rocky Mountain Spec Z Director
2013 Spec Z National Champion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Splitting class
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:49 am 
Offline
Forum Time Trialer
Forum Time Trialer

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 227
Location: redwood city, california
I am very sorry about the comment, I was under the impression that he was driving a nismo. Because it looked very fast on the straights. But I if he wasn't man he must be good indeed!
The comment was directed towards the difference in the cars, sorry it was worded inapropietly.






quote="dmdirks"]If you are going to propose splitting up the class, please provide concrete data to support your claim that the HR car has a clear advantage over the other platforms. Without data, your claim of "running them together is BS" is BS in itself. Could you at least describe your experience racing against various Spec Z platforms?

Ideally, a spec class would only consist of cars with the exact same engine, weight, and chassis configuration. As you say, this would be perfect. However, Spec Miata, 944-Spec, CMC, Spec E30, etc are examples of imperfect spec classes, as there as differences throughout all the eligible model years. Over time their rules have been revised, based on solid data, to maximize parity within them. Spec Z is no exception, and we as drivers should always make the effort to compare data, swap cars, etc, to find out what these differences are and revise the rules if necessary.

Since 2012 I have raced against 11 different cars, consisting of 6 HR, 2 Rev-up and 3 DE engines. There has not been one race where I have felt I did not win because of a clear performance gap in the cars. Traqmate data I have seen from the top three cars at Nationals 2012 also supported this.

I would also like to address the following: "As it is this series will only be good for z lovers, anyone who is just looking to race and not worry about bs, will go somewhere else." After racing 944-Spec for seven years, my decision-making process was quite objective: fast, reliable, inexpensive parts, similar power-to-weight ratio, and the cheapest donor car must be nationally competitive. No BS here. Again, the class is not perfect, but with over 30 Spec Z's either being raced or being built across the country, we've got something good here.

I think discussing the differences in the eligible years is not damaging to the growth of the class. Like with any new series, people would like to understand the differences before they spend the money on a donor. However, comments such as, "J must be a great driver, because everyone else looks, darn slow" are damaging and unnecessary in these discussions.[/quote]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Splitting class
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:07 am 
Offline
Postmeister General
Postmeister General

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:04 pm
Posts: 2506
Location: Sterling, IL
Dave is being his usual humble self here - he won Nationals this year convincingly in an early car - I think that is pretty good proof that the early cars are competitive in the right hands. A very good driver can often make a particular car look like an overdog - be very careful on forming opinions from isolated experiences. Corner exit speed determines a large amount of straightaway speed, and it can be deceptive to watch. Traqmate data tells the story.

_________________
Eric Kuhns#99

Great Lakes ST Director

ST2/3 FrankenFortyFour


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group