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 Post subject: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Forum Spectator
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 3
I couldnt find the information I need about building the Spec Z Cage, Could someone point me to a right direction? I might missed it somewhere.

1) Are Gussets allows in between A-pillar/B-pillar and roll cage?

2) Is the crash bar inside the dash removable and be replaced with the roll cage?

Thanks in advance!

-Pat


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:16 am
Posts: 67
Cage rules are in the CCR. Mke sure to use the heavier .120 wall tubing


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Jeremy replied. And Answers are No. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 227
Location: redwood city, california
If he has an 03-04 couldn't he go with 1 3/4 0.95?


FastNotFurious wrote:
Cage rules are in the CCR. Mke sure to use the heavier .120 wall tubing


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:46 am 
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Since you can be VERY close to the weight limit for .095 and based on some other cars and tech situations, best to go with .120 IMHO

Since the Spec Z rules state min weight is 3175 (for an '03) at race end (incl fuel resrve & driver) and the CCR states .120 is to be used for cars in the 3001lb to 4000 lb range, you're right on the edge assuming you can get to minimum weight.

Based on the Spec Z rules restrictions it is very hard to get to min weight AND really conform to the rules (no unnecessary interior/parts removal and only spec parts) and have all your safety equipment in. I'm always interested to see anyone who has managed it and how they got there.

You really don't want to find yourself at inspection having built your cage with .095 and find it weighs, for example, 3050 lbs dry... and fail tech.

Not worth the risk in my view - but I know most of us hoped we could get the cars below 3000 lb but I haven't seen anyone do it AND be in strict adherence to the rules - but I also haven't seen everything ;)

Just my view. Its only a concern since the defined min weight is so close to the cage tubing limit weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:25 am 
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FastNotFurious wrote:
Since you can be VERY close to the weight limit for .095 and based on some other cars and tech situations, best to go with .120 IMHO

Since the Spec Z rules state min weight is 3175 (for an '03) at race end (incl fuel resrve & driver) and the CCR states .120 is to be used for cars in the 3001lb to 4000 lb range, you're right on the edge assuming you can get to minimum weight.

Based on the Spec Z rules restrictions it is very hard to get to min weight AND really conform to the rules (no unnecessary interior/parts removal and only spec parts) and have all your safety equipment in. I'm always interested to see anyone who has managed it and how they got there.

You really don't want to find yourself at inspection having built your cage with .095 and find it weighs, for example, 3050 lbs dry... and fail tech.

Not worth the risk in my view - but I know most of us hoped we could get the cars below 3000 lb but I haven't seen anyone do it AND be in strict adherence to the rules - but I also haven't seen everything ;)

Just my view. Its only a concern since the defined min weight is so close to the cage tubing limit weight.


I could not agree more with this.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:28 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:22 pm
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Location: redwood city, california
Yes, but by doing so will you be overweight making your already slower car even slower.
Looks like there is a catch there. Or we race the min weight for all cars by 150lbs and make 1 mandatory cage, then we eliminate all this guessing.



FastNotFurious wrote:
Since you can be VERY close to the weight limit for .095 and based on some other cars and tech situations, best to go with .120 IMHO

Since the Spec Z rules state min weight is 3175 (for an '03) at race end (incl fuel resrve & driver) and the CCR states .120 is to be used for cars in the 3001lb to 4000 lb range, you're right on the edge assuming you can get to minimum weight.

Based on the Spec Z rules restrictions it is very hard to get to min weight AND really conform to the rules (no unnecessary interior/parts removal and only spec parts) and have all your safety equipment in. I'm always interested to see anyone who has managed it and how they got there.

You really don't want to find yourself at inspection having built your cage with .095 and find it weighs, for example, 3050 lbs dry... and fail tech.

Not worth the risk in my view - but I know most of us hoped we could get the cars below 3000 lb but I haven't seen anyone do it AND be in strict adherence to the rules - but I also haven't seen everything ;)

Just my view. Its only a concern since the defined min weight is so close to the cage tubing limit weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:11 pm 
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My cars are built the letter of the law, and they are 2900 lbs dry. Easily within the rules for .095. Why would you add all that extra weight to your car by going .120?

_________________
-Brian Lock
NASA NorCal ST/SU Group Leader
Valkyrie Autosport, Ltd.
http://www.valkyrieas.com


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Location: redwood city, california
Ok, so 3175 at the end of the race, that is probably with 5 gall fuel, that is 30 lbs plus an Italian or Japanese driver 140lbs that is 170 lbs, now he would probably be wearing cloth ad another 15 lbs. that's a total 185lbs.
So that leaves all the rest of us normal size faulks out of contention with an 03-04, unless we can get our cars bellow 3,000lbs.
Being bellow 3000 lbs is a given if one is trying to get to minimum weight with an 03-04!





B Esquire wrote:
My cars are built the letter of the law, and they are 2900 lbs dry. Easily within the rules for .095. Why would you add all that extra weight to your car by going .120?


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:36 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Atlanta, GA
Guys, I suggest you contact Clifton Winkleman the NASA Spec Z National Director on this issue.

"Clifton Winkleman" <clifton@drivenasa.com>

Based on a recent case...the .095 on a DE engine Spec Z FAILED NASA TECH and a log book was not issued!!!!! Thus I STRONGLY recommend that you go with 1.750” x .120”

15.6.18 Roll Cage Tubing Sizes
For the purposes of determining roll bar tubing sizes, vehicle weight is as raced, but without fuel and driver.
Note: There is an allowance of minus 0.010 inches on all tubing thicknesses. Minimum tubing size for the roll
cage is:
Up


.
2501 - 3000 lbs
1.500” x 0.120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.750” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.750” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages) *Note- Specifications listed only for
reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.

3001 - 4000 lbs
1.750” x .120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
No ERW allowed.

_________________
John Evans
john.evans@partsatlanta.com
PartsAtlanta.com
SE Spec Z Series Director


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