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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 2:22 pm 
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Does CMP sell 93 pump gas?
Deere

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Fred,

Yes they do sell 93 unleaded, 100 unleaded, and 110 leaded (I think). I use the CMP 93 unleaded whenever I run through what I bring with me.

It is about $5.50 a gallon and worth the premium. I have advised my friends that the extra cost of track gas is a minor expense when compared to $40k-100k racecars.

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 3:04 pm 
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I thought so, I bought my 110 there, I know its fresh. Unless you are running your street car, why would you take the risk with a place you don't know, with the investment your driving. Just curious.
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:13 am 
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Because one would expect a typical gas station to sell something labelled 93 octane and get actual 93 octane. $3.50+ gallon savings buys alot of beer and maybe some Hoosiers over the course of a season.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:43 am 
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Ev wrote:
<devils advocate hat on>

Before you have the pig roast, is it possible the vendor is the one who is doing the screw'n and the station owner is innocent? How often does a station owner test the fuel he's received from his supplier?


I certainly appreciate your playing devil's advocate here. It goes a long way to ensuring that conclusions are not made too early and assumptions are mistaken for fact. I actually considered this possibility when speaking to the Consumer Affairs Director at SC Dept of Agriculture (DOA). Last thing I wanted to do was harm a small business owner who was a victim himself. I work to support my racing habit as a private investigator in insurance fraud cases so I put that hat on before tackling this. That said, bear with me here, this will be wordy. The facts as I observed them indicated that the owner knew what he was selling.

1. He had a small sign in the window of the store that said "90 Octane Gas Ethanol Free" but you'd have to look for it to see it. It was worded ambiguously so that when I first read it, I thought it meant that all fuels with 90 octane or higher were ethanol free. If his intent was not to mislead, it would have read: "Premium Fuel is 90 octane and ethanol free"
2. The fuel in the tanks was produced and distributed by Valero, a large, well known gasoline manufacturer. It is highly unlikely a company that large would deceive, especially with how highly regulated that industry is.
3. He did not change the yellow octane rating decal at the pumps. It still read 93 when selecting it though as Darren Brady pointed out, a vague attempt was made to change the 3 to a 0 with a Sharpie at one pump.
4. As a prior thread response stated, the 10% ethanol added to 90 octane fuel is what will often make it 93 to be sold as such. If the station owner advertised "ethanol free" 90 octane, then he knew exactly what he was selling.
5. Gas stations in all states are required to designate their underground tanks for each octane/grade of fuel and can ONLY put that grade of fuel into the tank to prevent mixing of the grades of fuel. The tank he had the 90 octane stored in is designated for 93/premium as the SC DOA informed me. That means he knew what was supposed to go into the tank, what he bought from Valero was not 93 octane or premium, and he made the conscious decision to put mid-grade fuel into the premium fuel tank.
6. The owner did not alter the price of his premium fuel to account for the lesser product being dispensed. If anything, it was higher than it was down the road in town for actual 93 octane. He probably doubled or even tripled his profit margin on sales of premium fuel, which in the end, was most likely the intent. I can see nudging up the price of fuels on a race weekend to account for supply/demand and convenience of location but this was clearly a case of opportunistic greed trumping business ethics and the law for that industry.
7. He told one of the other TT drivers who questioned the 90 octane not being premium and the owner justified his actions saying "all premium gas in the area is now 90 octane", which may have been an accurate statement yet conveniently leaving out the part that the ethanol blend is what adds the 3 octane points to make it 93 octane.

Bottom line is that the owner knew what he bought, knew what he was selling, knew it was not what people thought they were buying, knew he put mid-grade fuel in a premium tank, didn't adjust the price for the product being dispensed, and tried to cover his ass by placing a sign in a window, out of line of sight about the 90 octane fuel, and worded it to where the message being conveyed was open for interpretation. I'm done now so investigator hat is off.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:41 am 
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That's what really start to annoy me about e85 (other then running out of fuel during a race) is that it NEVER was truly 85%, some were 60, some were 90, depending on if the wind was blowing or the grass was dead or alive. Why that regulation would be any different from 93 blend or 93 unblended I dunno but it makes me curious that all this 93+10% is never....really...93 consistently. Which re-enforces the point of buying 'race gas' even if it is only 93. YMMV by tune or engine of course.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 5:01 am 
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BAS-43 wrote:
Ev wrote:
<devils advocate hat on>

Before you have the pig roast, is it possible the vendor is the one who is doing the screw'n and the station owner is innocent? How often does a station owner test the fuel he's received from his supplier?


I certainly appreciate your playing devil's advocate here. It goes a long way to ensuring that conclusions are not made too early and assumptions are mistaken for fact. I actually considered this possibility when speaking to the Consumer Affairs Director at SC Dept of Agriculture (DOA). Last thing I wanted to do was harm a small business owner who was a victim himself. I work to support my racing habit as a private investigator in insurance fraud cases so I put that hat on before tackling this. That said, bear with me here, this will be wordy. The facts as I observed them indicated that the owner knew what he was selling.

1. He had a small sign in the window of the store that said "90 Octane Gas Ethanol Free" but you'd have to look for it to see it. It was worded ambiguously so that when I first read it, I thought it meant that all fuels with 90 octane or higher were ethanol free. If his intent was not to mislead, it would have read: "Premium Fuel is 90 octane and ethanol free"
2. The fuel in the tanks was produced and distributed by Valero, a large, well known gasoline manufacturer. It is highly unlikely a company that large would deceive, especially with how highly regulated that industry is.
3. He did not change the yellow octane rating decal at the pumps. It still read 93 when selecting it though as Darren Brady pointed out, a vague attempt was made to change the 3 to a 0 with a Sharpie at one pump.
4. As a prior thread response stated, the 10% ethanol added to 90 octane fuel is what will often make it 93 to be sold as such. If the station owner advertised "ethanol free" 90 octane, then he knew exactly what he was selling.
5. Gas stations in all states are required to designate their underground tanks for each octane/grade of fuel and can ONLY put that grade of fuel into the tank to prevent mixing of the grades of fuel. The tank he had the 90 octane stored in is designated for 93/premium as the SC DOA informed me. That means he knew what was supposed to go into the tank, what he bought from Valero was not 93 octane or premium, and he made the conscious decision to put mid-grade fuel into the premium fuel tank.
6. The owner did not alter the price of his premium fuel to account for the lesser product being dispensed. If anything, it was higher than it was down the road in town for actual 93 octane. He probably doubled or even tripled his profit margin on sales of premium fuel, which in the end, was most likely the intent. I can see nudging up the price of fuels on a race weekend to account for supply/demand and convenience of location but this was clearly a case of opportunistic greed trumping business ethics and the law for that industry.
7. He told one of the other TT drivers who questioned the 90 octane not being premium and the owner justified his actions saying "all premium gas in the area is now 90 octane", which may have been an accurate statement yet conveniently leaving out the part that the ethanol blend is what adds the 3 octane points to make it 93 octane.

Bottom line is that the owner knew what he bought, knew what he was selling, knew it was not what people thought they were buying, knew he put mid-grade fuel in a premium tank, didn't adjust the price for the product being dispensed, and tried to cover his ass by placing a sign in a window, out of line of sight about the 90 octane fuel, and worded it to where the message being conveyed was open for interpretation. I'm done now so investigator hat is off.

Sounds like you need to fire up the smoker.... It does appear the station owner is intending to deceive. Silly too considering his target market are people who are more likely to notice there's an issue than your average driver.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Why not just drive up to the Shell in Kershaw? It's like 3 miles up the street


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:36 pm 
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98cwitr wrote:
Why not just drive up to the Shell in Kershaw? It's like 3 miles up the street


Not the point.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:12 pm 
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98cwitr wrote:
Why not just drive up to the Shell in Kershaw? It's like 3 miles up the street



I agree with Matt - not really the point. However to provide another reason, many of us have race cars that are not street legal. While I normally lug gas jugs in my truck for fuel, this particular weekend I was using the skid pad and it was very convenient to be able to drive the race car over to the station for a refill. I certainly would not have attempted to drive the race car into Kershaw.

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