We're doing exactly what Chris wanted to avoid... We're discussing rules and creep and whoulda coulda shoulda...
Are you really suggesting that I go through the effort of custom machining my S197 spindles so that I can run brakes that are 10 years old and worse than the OEM stuff that came on the car? Then I need to hope to find a set of wheels that fit over those brakes and make track width... Does that really make sense? The other consideration for the rules creep is the fact that the factory parts are available and cheap. Your suggesting we use SCCA AS brake rules? Isn't that part of the reason AI was formed because those rules don't make sense given current technology? It would be like requiring the use of carburators also? The cost to do so is higher than what is comonly available.
My remarks about 12" brakes and 16" wheels were mostly sarcastic. 14" brakes and 18" wheels were one of the S197 deals. I"ve been told repeatedly, that 14" brakes (larger brakes) are of no performance advantage. So, the sarcasm is, then just use 12", and it should work geat............ I suppose sarcasm doesn't translate well.
However, you are INCORRECT. Several rule changes, starting in 07, favoring the new cars. They have all been listed several times in the last few months.
My point: There have been several threats to build an older car and continue to beat the masses, which may be the case. However, I suggest they remove a few parts and race a new Mustang with pre-2007 rules. Still may be fast, but not as fast in as in current configuration.
You can't police ABS calibration so you can only allow OEM parts (unless you want to open up that can of worms and let people run Bosch). I don't care because I don't rely on it. You can outlaw ABS, but why don't you just run CMC2 if you don't want ABS?
If it cant be inforced, (which is not true, it can be worked out) then make it all illegal. Why is the only option to allow everything? There are a few very talented builders attempting to retrofit the Z06 system on an Fbody. BTW, not easy to do. However, if it is worked out, how is anyone going to know if a module off of Pratt & Miller or an ALMS or WC car isn't used? And who is smart enough to know the difference? This is amateur racing. It needs to be fair and cost effective. You are one of few (likely the only one) making money off of this series. The rest of us are spending it. Very differenct perspective.
Further to this point... You have mentioned doing away with ABS. Do you realize you are actually asking every competitor with a 2005+ Mustang to spend a bunch of extra money to do this. You're a budget concious guy, but you seem to have no problem suggesting that other competitors spend extra money to change their cars to meet your rule. An ABS upgrade (read that as new prop valve) on a 2005+ Mustang is around $200 and takes about 15 minutes of work. Going away from that is more expensive for parts and god knows how many hours of making all new brake lines. I like the easy route...
The easy route for you. Then the rest of the cars in the class can either desgin, buy or build to keep up. Sure that makes perfect sense. Or as it has been suggested, we should just buy a new Mustang, or beter yet, leave the series. Not great for car couonts.
Besides are you talking about a Grand Am or Boss R or a street GT? Because its makes no sense for an amateur class to accomadate cars from pro classes.
A couple hundred in parts and 2-4 hours. I suck as a mechanic and I plumbed my entire brake lines in about 4 hours.
The same goes for controlling HP with electronic throttle. It was illegal last year, but since there is no way to police that, it was taken out of the rules for this year. I'm not doing it, but I know others are.
Yes, racers are programing the throttle for nearly perfect HP and TQ. So, either figure out how to stop it, or get rid of it. The notion to just throw up your arms, and say, "sorry everyone else...but we cant stop it". Is a cop out and lame.
The rules haven't changed to favor the new Mustang. The rules have generally remained unchanged with some exceptions that just make sense from a cost and availability standpoint. The level of prep and driver quality has changed.
They have changed nearly every year, since 2007 in favor on the Grand Am car. BTW in as early as 2006 there were already several S197 cars built, which were prior to the changes. It can and did happen. A large percentage were very capable and highly competitive. Nationals 2006, there were (4) legal (prior to rule mods) S197's. Despite being a brand new car, they were all very competitive.
I agree with Chris. I just want to race. If you need help getting your car sorted, I'll actually volunteer to spend a day with you in your car. We can plan to look over your car the day before the race weekend and then work on development the following day. Since I know very little bout the older GM stuff, you may need to send me the bumpsteer curves, camber curves, damper plots, spring rates, and bar dimensions so I can get an initial baseline of the car. It would be good to know what your wheel rates are and where your damping is with rspect to those. We'll need corner weights too...
I feel another clink coming....those damn three letters are being discussed.........again. It has all been said, and numerous times by both sides of the fence. As Chris said, "no crying when the rules come out" .Edit
: and yet there is still more (see bold)