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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:14 am 
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firehawkclone wrote:
Red Tornado wrote:
Hope everyone is happy with rules changes and now we can get to racing.


No were(I am) not!

Let's put it back to 07 rules and go racing. You don't want to spend money($300) to remove stuff, but your asking me to develope and ABS system to compete with Ford racing R&D. Seems really fair to me. And you!



And you want to vintage race, go for it


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:43 am 
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john, where are you getting the $300 from? iirc you are asking me to buy....

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:32 pm 
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John,
The directors had two options.

1. Remove ABS from ALL cars, as there is not an easy, 100% proof positive way to differentiate the FR module from the stock S197 system.

2. Penalize ALL S197 ABS systems by allowing non-S197 ABS systems more power, and no ABS cars even more than that.

Option #2 seems the best to allow us to embrace existing technology and not force those with ABS to remove the systems.


And you are asking to revert back to 2007 rules... They allowed OEM ABS. The FR unit was then, and is still considered an OEM piece.

Before you blast me about FR being OEM, don't... That's another discussion for another day.


As I've said before, there is nothing "special" about the S197 platform with the exception of the ABS system (my personal opinion). We've taken care of the first iteration of adjustments to create parity between all cars. Time will tell if more adjustments are needed.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:50 pm 
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All in all the new rules are fine, but I really just can figure out how ford would make two parts that no one on the planet can tell apart. It just seems like bad business at the big picture level. Seems like that would cause Ford problems, how do they know which one they have On a car. How to they know if they have upgraded a vehical yet. Don't really care if we allow abs or not, but just don't really understand how these two parts can't be distinguish can some one from or close to Ford chime in and help me with this one. I really just want to understand it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:56 pm 
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maybe i am totally wrong, but my understanding is that the GT500 street ABS and the FR ABS is the same part with a different tune. One for street rubber and one for racing rubber. IIRC Dean Martin recommends the GT500 ABS for Toyos because that is the proper setting for Toyo's grip level.

So far as I know there is no system to actually tune or change the tune in the ABS module and therefore two parts are required. If I am wrong, someone will tell me.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:21 pm 
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The tune can't be "read", typically these kind of things have a version or build number embedded in the program that is simple to display. Not sure what the interface is but most things via the odd ii port can be versioned. Again how would ford know which tune it had. Seems like they would really need to know from time to time.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:34 pm 
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http://www.autoenginuity.com/Ford-All-S ... ke_sensors

It would appear that many prams related to the abs programming can be read, ford must be able to tell us how to determine which program it has, even if they just give us a couple of Parms to check for. Specific values.

Again I don't care I just keep reading it can't be done, and frankly I am skeptical since it just wouldn't make sense for ford to have it that way, it is just not logical.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Okay, let me clarify my statement...

The typical tech guy in the NASA tech shed has no way to figure out the difference between a stock S197 module and the FR module. I'm 99.99999% sure Ford could figure it out, given the proper equipment.

One other problem is the label on the ABS module will wipe away if it comes in contact with brake fluid. Pretty dumb on Ford's part to put a brake fluid sensitive thermal ink (or whatever) next to six brake fluid filled lines.

Regarding the FR500 versus the GT500 modules, I can certainly do that testing in about 3 weeks. I'm almost done retrofitting the FR system in my FOX and currently have the FR500S module attached. But I do happen to also have a brand new, never been used GT500 module that would easily be swapped...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:30 am 
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Thanks that makes a lot more sense, funny on the label ink thing. Frankly sounds like a solvable problem. I am sure back in the day knowing the exact weight of a car coming off track was big issue, now we have computerized scales that we can take to any track. So it seems that this is a problem that we will have to solve as more and more technology finds its way into our cars. If we are going to modernize the rules, then we might just have to modernize the tech shed as well. Maybe we could get Ford as part of their sponsorship deal with NASA to donate one setup that could be used at nationals. So we could at least start to know who was running what even though both are currently legal. We should at least ask them what could it hurt if we haven't already. Just my two cents, keep us informed on the abs for the fox project would love to hear how that works out.

Thanks
Mark

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:27 am 
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marshallmosty wrote:
Okay, let me clarify my statement...

The typical tech guy in the NASA tech shed has no way to figure out the difference between a stock S197 module and the FR module. I'm 99.99999% sure Ford could figure it out, given the proper equipment.

One other problem is the label on the ABS module will wipe away if it comes in contact with brake fluid. Pretty dumb on Ford's part to put a brake fluid sensitive thermal ink (or whatever) next to six brake fluid filled lines.

Regarding the FR500 versus the GT500 modules, I can certainly do that testing in about 3 weeks. I'm almost done retrofitting the FR system in my FOX and currently have the FR500S module attached. But I do happen to also have a brand new, never been used GT500 module that would easily be swapped...


In the interest of parity...please be sure to provide full, detailed documentation of how you get it to work. Maybe you could even build a harness and line kit for it so we can order it out of a catalog just like the S197's? Installing the SN95 system in a fox was well documented. Maybe you could do the same for this system? now get back to the shop and finish it!

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