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 Post subject: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Right now base OEM is included in your initial classification. An upgrade from minor to major is +2. Probably the bargain on the point sheet.

Having started in MGAs and 68 Z/28 I am used to brakes that were there for emergencies only.

Do people really believe a better caliper does not.make for a faster lap time?

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Varkwso wrote:
Right now base OEM is included in your initial classification. An upgrade from minor to major is +2. Probably the bargain on the point sheet.

Having started in MGAs and 68 Z/28 I am used to brakes that were there for emergencies only.

Do people really believe a better caliper does not.make for a faster lap time?


I think it really depends on the car. I personally beleive the +2 for calipers on my 99 m3 is not worth the effort or money or points.

In fact, even if it was free points im not sure I would do it anyway. That said, calipers do let you get much bigger pad thicknesses which are really nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:04 pm 
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It depends. I know if I upgrade to a huge BBK, I will get better braking, but not enough to gain a ton of time. I will be adding a ton of weight due to huge rotors and bigger calipers. If I could just upgrade to 4 piston caliper in the front and 2 piston in the rear and retain the stock size rotors, I could see that helping more than anything.

The bigger rotors are is where a lot of the weight is. When I switched to Brembos from my tiny stock brakes, I am willing to bet I put on an additional 30-40lbs to my car. They are thicker and taller. Really heavy!

Maybe upgrading from a drum brakes to disc brakes would be a lot more noticeable.

I don't know. Just my thoughts...This is just based on my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:13 pm 
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For our Corvettes it doesn't imporve lap times. It simply reduces consumables costs. Pads are thicker, cheaper and less taper means you ran run them all the way down. I get more piston knockback with the Wilwoods to the point they feel worse in some areas vs. the stock calipers, but they've alredy paid for themselves in reduced pad costs. If I was only doing TT I wouldn't bother with the calipers. That said, I have no desire to race w/o the Wilwoods... would go through pads like crazy.

Pads, rotors, lines, fluid and cooling are all free mods... I'd say that's the important stuff for stopping more quickly... on and of course tires (but not free).

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:48 pm 
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This is a great post,as I too was pondering going to BBK,but after reading some great feedback,I too have decided to save the dough...and points :D

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Here is my thought on brakes...

If I can go out with my stock single piston fronts and single piston rears down the back straight at Mid Ohio and lock up the ABS on A6's, I can do the same with a BBK. If I can lock up the ABS that means I have exceeded the grip of the tire. Right?

The only difference I feel with upgrading to the track model 350Z Brembos is that it takes a less pedal pressure to get there. With the Brembos, since they are 4 piston front and 2 piston rear, I get more initial bite and less pressure needed to threshold brake. That instills better brake "feel" for the driver. I get far less pad knock back with the Brembos too, so I don't get a long pedal after some of the tight corners going into the next brake zone. Watch some the Continental Tire series guys. A lot of times you will see their brake lights flicker before a big brake zone coming down a straight away. They are re-seating the pads again so they don't get long pedal because they are on OEM calipers. This is what some of us have to do using stock brakes sometimes. However, this does not take away the braking ability of the OEM single piston calipers.

My single piston calipers destroy pads faster because they taper really easily. This is one of the biggest reasons I upgraded. Secondly, was to gain better pedal feel.

That being said. Think of some of the other free mods. Lightweight clutch. Some of the Vette guys are using those 5 inch quarter master clutches to save a ton of weight and more importantly, get all that rotational mass off the engine. Something like 30-40lbs. That's huge.

Changing final drive gears. I can mathematically gain 15% more power switching to a 4.08 gear in my Z over my 3.5. I would accelerate a hell of a lot faster for free points. I may shift more, but the acceleration I will gain will far outweigh that. Some tracks will be better or worse than others. Again 0 points.

Changing out all bushings on your car to poly is free. That will stiffen up the car quite a bit and help in numerous ways over soft OEM rubber bushings. Again 0 points.

So you think brakes should still be +2 if those other things I mentioned are free? I think the above three things will far more improve your lap times than some brakes. I would be more than happy to let my competitors put the most expensive biggest baddest brakes they can on their cars. If they beat me, the last excuse I am going to use is "it's because they have bigger brakes". It's because they're are the better driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Look at GT3 and Corvettes we left foot brake before every brake zone to seat the pads. A brake caliper that does not require that will be faster, marginally.

Free mods are free mods. Brake upgrades often include new wheel sizing so that is an expense. Not counting bigger wheels Stoptechs or hardbar brakes are about $3000.

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:37 pm 
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I agree with Brian when it comes to budget brake kits which is what we both have. I haven't seen any lap time improvements at any track. That being said, a real BBK would do wonders. Can you imagine what ZR1 carbon brakes would do on our cars? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:49 pm 
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sperkins wrote:
Can you imagine what ZR1 carbon brakes would do on our cars? :shock:


force you to spend $8k on the brakes, then spend another $8k on a whole bunch of 19" wheels.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake calipers
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:56 pm 
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sperkins wrote:
I agree with Brian when it comes to budget brake kits which is what we both have. I haven't seen any lap time improvements at any track. That being said, a real BBK would do wonders. Can you imagine what ZR1 carbon brakes would do on our cars? :shock:


For about $8000 we can get them. I would love to try them.

Mark beat me to it...

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