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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:24 am 
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I'd like to try something new this season, and see if we can get some of these 20-100 :shock: page threads wrapped up before the rule change occurs. So, here is the first one, and we are getting an 11 month jump on things. During the 2012 rules revisions, we tabled a proposal to add another tire point category between the +13 and the +30 (non-DOT), or to just bump the +13 category to anywhere from +16 to +20 points. You have the next 100 pages of this thread to play with the reasons for doing this or not, and how many points would be appropriate (if any). At this point, if we were to do this, I would think that we would keep the +13 category after the BFG's got added due to their "special properties" regarding size (Yes, gentlemen and ladies, size does matter at times). But, hey, you have at least 99 page to throw that one around too. PT guys, sorry, but the TT guys are just way more intense on the Forums than you guys, so you will have to hang with the non-racers here on this one. I'll post a shadow-type thread linking here for the PT guys.

Have Fun (and please be respectful of each other...as usual :roll: )

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:32 am 
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I seriously don't care, I will play in whatever sandbox the rules outline for us since it's the same for everybody, but these "moving target" rules where we build a car around a tire really suck when they are changing all the time, especially when investing in brakes/wheels/tires around a given size (yeah tires dictate wheel, wheels are part of the brakes equation, dia and caliper clearance, etc). Change 1 and everything can get jacked.

The competition in PT and TT is so tight, that you pretty much are maxing your points to be on the pointy end, and tires eat up most of them. If that changes, your whole car build goes flying out.

So if you decide to do it, just don't touch it in the future. Change it and leave it be. Changing rules formula with points involved is not going to help PT or TT points classes grow. If you want to make adjustments to cars to keep things even, change comp weights, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:42 am 
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I'd prefer to see other tires get bumped down in points, and possibly negative points for "lesser" categories of tires if needed to get the desired spread in points between all the tire options. It is also my opinion that the tire points aren't broken in this manner right now (Rs at 10 and As at 13 seems fine) and don't need fixed this way.

Ditto on the moving target sentiments, especially as someone who spends all of his 12 availible points on tires, but if we can be shown or it becomes obvious that something is off in the tire points or any other area I can get behind the required change to keep the ruleset working as best as it possibly can.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:50 am 
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drivinhardz06 wrote:
I seriously don't care, I will play in whatever sandbox the rules outline for us since it's the same for everybody, but these "moving target" rules where we build a car around a tire really suck when they are changing all the time, especially when investing in brakes/wheels/tires around a given size (yeah tires dictate wheel, wheels are part of the brakes equation, dia and caliper clearance, etc). Change 1 and everything can get jacked.

The competition in PT and TT is so tight, that you pretty much are maxing your points to be on the pointy end, and tires eat up most of them. If that changes, your whole car build goes flying out.

So if you decide to do it, just don't touch it in the future. Change it and leave it be. Changing rules formula with points involved is not going to help PT or TT points classes grow. If you want to make adjustments to cars to keep things even, change comp weights, etc.

+1.

It's fun to pick and choose your mods, but it gets old doing it year after year - especially when the rules take longer and longer to come out.

If the pts for tires are going to continually change, I - like a lot of others in TTB/A that are maxed or close to maxed out yearly - will probably shift into TTS/U/R land and just build the car the way we want it. I doubt that's what the goal of this specific proposal but that could very well be the fallout.


But I am curious; besides A6's and C91's - what would be at or above a +13 anyways that's still a DOT? Or would it be those specifically getting bumped? If so, do you think that'd limit or exasterbate the 'spending wars' that we've seen where people break out 2-3 sets of stickered A6's in an event day!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Sounds like a good way to bump all cars up one class essentially elimating the existing TTA/PTA field.
Also I think it would be a detriment to the Hoosier contingency as some folks would run to a 100 tread wear tire. I can't understand why we would want to mess with that program.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:52 pm 
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sperkins wrote:
Sounds like a good way to bump all cars up one class essentially elimating the existing TTA/PTA field.
Also I think it would be a detriment to the Hoosier contingency as some folks would run to a 100 tread wear tire. I can't understand why we would want to mess with that program.


+1

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I don't get it. Stable rules brings cars in and keeps them racing, lets the also rans eventually catch up to the pioneers and makes for better racing all around. Makes track records meaningful year to year as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:02 pm 
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It's all because of thoses cheater corvette's and MR2's and possibly the BMW's as well.If they would just ban thoses cars it could all be normal again and everybody would be happy again. :lol: :lol:

Robert
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Well, the idea is that we apparently have cars that are gaining as much as 2 seconds or more a lap by using a tire like the A6 over the R6. There are those out there that want us to equalize those gains with points. There are others that say the same thing about the +10 point tires compared with the +7 point tires. While I don't foresee us ever making another modification rule that gives points back, Ken's idea about backing down the points is and has been on the table.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:09 pm 
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So the idea on the table is bumping the A6 higher than +13, or lowering the R6 down from +10?

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