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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:35 am 
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Forum Hot Lapper
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I'll go ahead and start a thread on this now, it's going to come up eventually. We've been talking about it over on the Factory Five site and it will do no good to discuss there.

I know the rules were put in place to keep a car in check that really has no existing data to base rules on( other than the FFR spec series), but I don't think we're going to be able to compete in ST with that aero penalty. Currently I am about 3 seconds off pace in ST-1 and I am right at the HP limit and I have made almost every improvement you can for the FFR without hacking out the suspension and starting from scratch.

I have a G2X datalogger so I'll try to get some data back for max Gs braking corning acceleration with my setup and hopefully we can make some comparisons with other cars running in the series. I'd love to get some of that data out so we can see where the cars stand. I already have data w/o aero and after this weekend I will have some good data with aero.

The vettes,355s, etc...handle great right out of the box and already have great aero...then they can throw on whatever wing/tray they want with no penalty...and it just widens the gap. The fastest ST-1 car in our region has full carbon fiber body and Speed GT wing under-tray etc...there's no way a brick like an FFR can compete with that.

I'll let the others shime in...this is just a primer. Not complaining at all, I am just glad to have a class to race in with a non spec racer FFR.

I know people see the car as a "tube frame" car, but seriously, it's exactly that...with some mustang suspension pieces bolted on...it's by no means anything like a Panoz or anything of the sort.

Have a good one....
Ryan

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:37 pm 
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I support that train of thought.
Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Yeah, I don't get how an open cock-pit aerodynamic brick gets a penalty for changing the splitter or adding a wing when a ground effects, through the body downforce car does not. We concluded that it is impossible to make a FFR car competitive in ST-1 which is why you see most in ST-2 where the penalty isn't magnified as much.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:05 pm 
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Again...I agree.

A Viper/Vette/Porsche already has a significant aero advantage over a cobra to begin with (especially in the drag department). They are allowed to add whatever mods they want with no penalty.

I know first hand about the drag difference between these cars and a Cobra. My car is an SU with a raw power to weight of ~4.5 (guessing at RWHP from crank HP). I have been on the track with ST1 viper comp coupe (505 FWHP and 3000 lbs) to my 640FWHP and 2500 lbs and past 120mph I cannot pull the vipers.

I also know first hand that aero really helps a lot on a cobra. But it helps a lot on any car. I dropped ~2.5 seconds with aero changes alone on at PIR (1::09.0 to 1:06.3). Yes huge improvement. I also have a friend with a PTA class Porsche 911 and he dropped nearly 2 seconds after installing a RSR rear wing and front fascia.

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Last edited by claykos on Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:06 pm 
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Are you kidding me? You have Buffamante blowing the doors off ZO6 vettes by 3 seconds in ST-2 with no aero mods and you want points back? Fat chance. Sounds like you're just in the wrong ST class.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:07 pm 
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It's all the nut behind the wheel......

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:11 pm 
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claykos wrote:
It's all the nut behind the wheel......


And Jody Austin is one heck of a driver in a very well prepared car. A cobra going around Road Atlanta well into the 1:35's is a hard sell for unfair treatment. He was on par with several SU cars with very fast drivers.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:15 pm 
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I don't personally know any of the drivers involved and I don't mean to insult or disrespect anyone's skills. I do know that Tony B is a pro level driver and that can make a very big difference.

I also know that once you start adding power the aero makes a much bigger difference. At ST2 power a cobra could probably be competitive. At ST1 power I don't think it can be without some downforce.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:41 pm 
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Exactly, I could care less if I have more power in my cars current trim, it's worthless...I'm losing ground in the turns....there's not a damn thing I can do about it either. On the straight it's pretty worthless too, I can pull ahead and I'll lose whatever gain I have by the end of the straight...I usually have to make any ground I can in braking zones, only chance I have because the car sure can't out handle much of anything.

I think it would be simple enough to compare some Gs using data acquisition. I am sure I can convince our ST-1 front runner to run a G2X for a few sessions, he's my team mate. All we need are max G values for some key speeds for braking, lateral, acceleration etc...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:52 pm 
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With aero and on slicks (used 18 inch radials) I see about 1.5-1.75 g's max lateral and 1.1-1.5 braking. Obviously this depends on the track, quality of the tires, etc. This is from a G2X.

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