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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:09 pm 
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esr wrote:
Same here that rule will keep me from racing in ST4 next year with my 03 350z
I Just spent good $$ to get to 3050# and still under power
With some engine mods!
I have 3 new sets of 10 inch rims.
At this point the z is probably the wrong car so I am not buying new wheels just to see what goes down with this class plus pumping up my motor any more when this class should be a 12.0:1 class. Why do we give + points to something that is mandatory.
Cars up to 2900 should be on 245
Cars up to 3300 should be on 275
Cars over 3300 should be on even bigger tires
With no +points at 12.0:1 like the class states on the rules.
I will keep my car at 3050 With my 275s at real reliable 12.0:1 and and enter SU and have fun with whoever is out there.
Only cause I like the NASA bbq




Firstly it would be hilarious for you go to up to all the Pcar owners and tell them they have to run 245's under those rear fenders, in rear engine heavy cars simply because they weigh that amount, and many more examples, so that won't fly. Secondly others are in the same boat as you where they tried maximizing the tires to the rules ragged edge and in some of those extremely fine tuned cases they've now tipped the scales. In a 10" case if your referring to BFG's you can always get the 265's and be perfectly legal on a 10"er (if, indeed, the tool don't fit but everyone for themselves there sounds like). And if you have 10 sets of the 275's you have 6 months to burn through em. Simple.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:31 pm 
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BFG doesn't have a time trials contingency.. these changes to TT4 really seem to be trying to force hoosiers out of TT instead of leveling the playing field with Toyo/BFG - pushing an american company that produces great tires with a great contingency program out of TT because their tires run wide...

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Last edited by JCathers on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Stay tuned. I’m writing a technical bulletin tonight that’s going to switch that number from 3250 pounds to 3100 pounds.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Yup conveniently just bought 18x10s on Black Friday.

The best part about this rule is that it does nothing to the cars in my region that blew everyone’s doors off last season. Heavyest cars, biggest tires, and most horsepower.

Let the cars under 3250 take no mod points to run a 282mm.

Not sure how to burn through tires during the winter in the north east.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Greg G. wrote:
Stay tuned. I’m writing a technical bulletin tonight that’s going to switch that number from 3250 pounds to 3100 pounds.



3100 sounds much better. Also it’s actually achievable in my car.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:41 am 
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ST4 only:

so 245's for anyone under 3100lbs, 275's if above 3100lbs.

I'm with many above, I'm perfectly fine running 245's but my rims are very wide and may or may not fit the new NASA measuring templates. The thoughts of the same tire being legal on a 9.5" rim and illegal on a 10" rim makes no sense to me. Are there soooo many anomalously sized tires out there that the bad ones can't be banned or re-classed specifically?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am 
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davidfarmer wrote:
ST4 only:

so 245's for anyone under 3100lbs, 275's if above 3100lbs.

I'm with many above, I'm perfectly fine running 245's but my rims are very wide and may or may not fit the new NASA measuring templates. The thoughts of the same tire being legal on a 9.5" rim and illegal on a 10" rim makes no sense to me. Are there soooo many anomalously sized tires out there that the bad ones can't be banned or re-classed specifically?


Technically, that's exactly what they're doing. For example if you look at the 2015 or 16 rules they specifically called out that 245 BFG's count as 275's and 275bfg's count as 285's. That's because when this tire was released it was hella wide even compared to the hoosiers. This made some folks run 265's but in effort to add .5" to the tread width they mounted on .5" wider wheels. Such tires had tall enough sidewalls to make that happen. Then there was the 255 hoosier which was technically 275 wide when the rules used to use specific widths instead of ranges. Annnnd you're right back where you were, over and over. By going with a "fit the tool or fail", Greg no longer has to go through testing each new tire to see if it's clearly not what it says it is, call people out, write bulletins etc etc. It's now up to each competitor to find that combo that falls into spec to squeeze what they can from their grip levels - regardless of who comes out with what tire.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:20 am 
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Greg G. wrote:
Balroks wrote:
Do you have the base testing data available for those popular ones? Like 275 hoosier on 9.5 or 10 and bfg's on 9.5 or 10, etc? As in you know already what combos for sure aren't going to cut the mustard.

Hoosier 275 (both 17 and 18's) should fit the 282mm tool on 10" wheels. Not sure about the BFG's
The 255 x 18 will not.



I don't get how the 275/17 with a listed section width of 11 inches will fit the tool,

But a 255/18 with a listed section width of 10.8 inches will not fit the tool ?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:31 am 
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Pat533i wrote:
Greg G. wrote:
Balroks wrote:
Do you have the base testing data available for those popular ones? Like 275 hoosier on 9.5 or 10 and bfg's on 9.5 or 10, etc? As in you know already what combos for sure aren't going to cut the mustard.

Hoosier 275 (both 17 and 18's) should fit the 282mm tool on 10" wheels. Not sure about the BFG's
The 255 x 18 will not.



I don't get how the 275/17 with a listed section width of 11 inches will fit the tool,

But a 255/18 with a listed section width of 10.8 inches will not fit the tool ?


I am guessing because per Hoosier, the 255/18 was measured on a 9" rim, whereas the 275/17 was measured on a 9.5" rim.

Going to the 10" wheel will have a fairly significant impact on the section width for the 255/18. It may be ok on a 9.5"?

Bummer for a few folks I know in ST3/TT3 with several sets of 10" wheels who run this tire size.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:44 pm 
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I have no issue with adjusting for mis-sized tires, I DO have an issue with tires being deemed illegal because I can't afford to buy new wheels. Just because the sidewall bulges out on a particular rim has nothing to do with the tread width or performance.

A 245/40/18 Hoosier is going to be very close to 266mm on my rims

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