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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:51 am 
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drivinhardz06 wrote:
zigspeed10 wrote:
Why not just remove the tire width mod factors all together and allow people to run the appropriate size tire for the weight of their car.


"Allow" sounds like a very passive way to make people go buy 8-12 new wheels and tire sizes, which would be pretty painful to the wallet. Identifying an "appropriate" tire size for a given weight would be very subjective. I used to race a 3200 lb car that could have never even fit a 275 size tire on it.


Last edited by esr on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:56 am 
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I fully disagree, the advantage should be given to the heavier cars, both in tire and horsepower!
as i see it you have it completely backwards!

zigspeed10 wrote:
Why not just remove the tire width mod factors all together and allow people to run the appropriate size tire for the weight of their car. This will eliminate any manufactures side wall claim discrepancies and avoids the need to measure all the tires and avoids the next issue of wheel size. From my experience once you have “enough tire” going bigger doesn’t really help much anyway. I’ve tested this with 265’s, 275’s, and 315’s on a 3200lbs comp weight in ST3. 275’s were the sweet spot. One caveat for this to work is that the mod factors for weight need to be addressed. In a pw/wt class heavier with more power is going to be faster in most cases because low hp cars can’t push through the air as well as higher hp cars. Currently the combination of Tire and Weight mod factors account for this and if we remove the tire width mod factors then the weight table alone will need to account for this and needs to be changed.

This first table is based on the current rules with example cars at different weights and tire size. The resulting combined mod factor provides a benefit to lighter weight cars compared to heavier cars which is what it should do. We could argue for days on how much the adjustments should be and if they should be different for each class but they are in the correct direction of giving a benefit to lighter weight lower horsepower cars.

Comp Weight......Tire Size on Car........Tire size mod Factor.....Weight Mod Factor.....Resulting Combined Mod Factor
2500lbs..............245 or smaller..........+0.7 ..........................-0.2........................+0.5
3200lbs..............275.........................+0.3 ...........................0.0........................+0.3
3450lbs..............285 or bigger.............0.0...........................+0.2.......................+0.2



This table is the proposed mod factors for weight if the tire size mod factor is removed. It’s at least a place to start from to have a discussion.

Comp Weight
Less Than........Weight mod Factor
2200lbs...........+0.7
2400lbs...........+0.6
2600lbs...........+0.5
2800lbs...........+0.4
3200lbs...........+0.3
3400lbs...........+0.2
3600lbs...........+0.1

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:08 am 
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is this coming from NASA? or an inside source!


zigspeed10 wrote:
Why not just remove the tire width mod factors all together and allow people to run the appropriate size tire for the weight of their car. This will eliminate any manufactures side wall claim discrepancies and avoids the need to measure all the tires and avoids the next issue of wheel size. From my experience once you have “enough tire” going bigger doesn’t really help much anyway. I’ve tested this with 265’s, 275’s, and 315’s on a 3200lbs comp weight in ST3. 275’s were the sweet spot. One caveat for this to work is that the mod factors for weight need to be addressed. In a pw/wt class heavier with more power is going to be faster in most cases because low hp cars can’t push through the air as well as higher hp cars. Currently the combination of Tire and Weight mod factors account for this and if we remove the tire width mod factors then the weight table alone will need to account for this and needs to be changed.

This first table is based on the current rules with example cars at different weights and tire size. The resulting combined mod factor provides a benefit to lighter weight cars compared to heavier cars which is what it should do. We could argue for days on how much the adjustments should be and if they should be different for each class but they are in the correct direction of giving a benefit to lighter weight lower horsepower cars.

Comp Weight......Tire Size on Car........Tire size mod Factor.....Weight Mod Factor.....Resulting Combined Mod Factor
2500lbs..............245 or smaller..........+0.7 ..........................-0.2........................+0.5
3200lbs..............275.........................+0.3 ...........................0.0........................+0.3
3450lbs..............285 or bigger.............0.0...........................+0.2.......................+0.2



This table is the proposed mod factors for weight if the tire size mod factor is removed. It’s at least a place to start from to have a discussion.

Comp Weight
Less Than........Weight mod Factor
2200lbs...........+0.7
2400lbs...........+0.6
2600lbs...........+0.5
2800lbs...........+0.4
3200lbs...........+0.3
3400lbs...........+0.2
3600lbs...........+0.1

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:50 am 
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This is just a proposed idea that would eliminate the tire width mod factors that always seem to be a problem for the series. Tried to use numbers that would minimize any change to current pw/wt ratios. If most cars fall between 2400lbs and 3400lbs then most people wouldn't see much if any change to their pw/wt ratio. This is all a complete guess on my part so lets discuss and poke holes in it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:35 am 
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I had hoped that my gts2 e36 m3 would be a fun crossover to st4. But with the ruleset changing from 4 to 6 points it'll be impossible for my car to compete in this class against any properly built cars. This would definitely have to be a gts3 car to have any shot in 4. I hope 5 comes around and is sensible.

Also I would like to add we should allow canards. Seems silly that the class allows 10k suspension, 10k diff, 10k in brakes, but then some $200 canards aren't allowed b/c of "cost control". That ban essential kills the most popularly used airdamn/splitter for e36's.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:39 pm 
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focusedintntions wrote:
I had hoped that my gts2 e36 m3 would be a fun crossover to st4. But with the ruleset changing from 4 to 6 points it'll be impossible for my car to compete in this class against any properly built cars. This would definitely have to be a gts3 car to have any shot in 4. I hope 5 comes around and is sensible.

Also I would like to add we should allow canards. Seems silly that the class allows 10k suspension, 10k diff, 10k in brakes, but then some $200 canards aren't allowed b/c of "cost control". That ban essential kills the most popularly used airdamn/splitter for e36's.


who's spending 10k on a diff or brakes?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Redstone wrote:
focusedintntions wrote:
I had hoped that my gts2 e36 m3 would be a fun crossover to st4. But with the ruleset changing from 4 to 6 points it'll be impossible for my car to compete in this class against any properly built cars. This would definitely have to be a gts3 car to have any shot in 4. I hope 5 comes around and is sensible.

Also I would like to add we should allow canards. Seems silly that the class allows 10k suspension, 10k diff, 10k in brakes, but then some $200 canards aren't allowed b/c of "cost control". That ban essential kills the most popularly used airdamn/splitter for e36's.


who's spending 10k on a diff or brakes?



Typical brake setup on SU-ST3 cars is in the 4-5K range, so 10k is not as outlandish as his example indicates.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:39 pm 
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6 piston more like 7k?? maybe!!!

brkntrxn wrote:
Redstone wrote:
focusedintntions wrote:
I had hoped that my gts2 e36 m3 would be a fun crossover to st4. But with the ruleset changing from 4 to 6 points it'll be impossible for my car to compete in this class against any properly built cars. This would definitely have to be a gts3 car to have any shot in 4. I hope 5 comes around and is sensible.

Also I would like to add we should allow canards. Seems silly that the class allows 10k suspension, 10k diff, 10k in brakes, but then some $200 canards aren't allowed b/c of "cost control". That ban essential kills the most popularly used airdamn/splitter for e36's.


who's spending 10k on a diff or brakes?



Typical brake setup on SU-ST3 cars is in the 4-5K range, so 10k is not as outlandish as his example indicates.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:39 pm 
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6 piston more like 7k?? maybe!!!

brkntrxn wrote:
Redstone wrote:
focusedintntions wrote:
I had hoped that my gts2 e36 m3 would be a fun crossover to st4. But with the ruleset changing from 4 to 6 points it'll be impossible for my car to compete in this class against any properly built cars. This would definitely have to be a gts3 car to have any shot in 4. I hope 5 comes around and is sensible.

Also I would like to add we should allow canards. Seems silly that the class allows 10k suspension, 10k diff, 10k in brakes, but then some $200 canards aren't allowed b/c of "cost control". That ban essential kills the most popularly used airdamn/splitter for e36's.


who's spending 10k on a diff or brakes?



Typical brake setup on SU-ST3 cars is in the 4-5K range, so 10k is not as outlandish as his example indicates.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 227
Location: redwood city, california
6 piston more like 7k?? maybe!!!

brkntrxn wrote:
Redstone wrote:
focusedintntions wrote:
I had hoped that my gts2 e36 m3 would be a fun crossover to st4. But with the ruleset changing from 4 to 6 points it'll be impossible for my car to compete in this class against any properly built cars. This would definitely have to be a gts3 car to have any shot in 4. I hope 5 comes around and is sensible.

Also I would like to add we should allow canards. Seems silly that the class allows 10k suspension, 10k diff, 10k in brakes, but then some $200 canards aren't allowed b/c of "cost control". That ban essential kills the most popularly used airdamn/splitter for e36's.


who's spending 10k on a diff or brakes?



Typical brake setup on SU-ST3 cars is in the 4-5K range, so 10k is not as outlandish as his example indicates.


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