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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:01 am 
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Sterling Doc wrote:
I'm waiting for the rear engine F1 car to be invented, and dominate :lol: .
Those guys must not be very smart.

I don't love the rule change, but it does make more sense in ST3 than elsewhere - trying to cater to the import crowd. I'm glad to see ST1/2 are left alone. If this sees big increases in participation, then it was the right choice. If not, not so much. We shall see.

I will stay in ST3 if I don't have to make my car into a pig, otherwise spend some $$ on weight loss and go to ST2.


Come on now. Mid engine offers the same acceleration advantage. But has other advantages from the weight distribution. Mid engine trumps Rear engine. Or so they say, I personally prefer the engine hanging out the ass.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:09 pm 
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I can't argue against the area under the curve rule as us EVO's have a serious advantage there. But one thing i can't agree with is making the penalty higher for those of us with DCT transmissions from the factory. I'd like to hear about the evidence that was brought up to justify such a move. Even the original penalty i can't agree with 100% but increasing it from where it is simply doesn't make any sense, especially considering torque converter equipped vehicles incur no penalty. In the evo world, DCT's have been proven to rob a bit more power over their 5 speed equivalents, very common of auto tq converter transmissions. Our DCT's are also 60 lbs heavier than a 5 speed, similar to an auto trans vs 5 speed. I'm not saying that the quick shifts of a DCT don't have an advantage over a 5 speed, but i AM saying that penalizing DCT's while not penalizing Auto's is erring on hypocrisy. Have you driven a modern sports car with an auto transmission? They're fantastic!

Also, a hoosier A7 vs a pirelli super soft compound. Which is faster? Neither. For the case of TT, you're really limiting options of those who wish to be competitive both on track and in their wallet as take off-s can be found cheap. For TT, there really shouldn't be any penalty. For ST, it makes total sense to penalize slicks as they shine over time, but i feel participants could really expand in TT if the tire penalties just made sense. Adding back points for street compounds would also be a good starting point.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:19 pm 
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Additionally, you mention a concern to widen the gap between ST1 and ST2. As it sits there is a decent gap between 2 and 3 and that gap exists because of many factors that apply to only st3, but not st2. Such as aftermarket aero. And your plans to have a DCT penalty for ST3 and not st2 do not help the st1>st2 gap. I recommend if you have a penalty in st3, it should remain for st2. Actually i recommend none at all.... but hell i know you're not going to listen to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:04 am 
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I haven't tested back to back yet but from the feel of A6 to A7 the A7 doesn't feel any faster. In fact I'd venture to say I like the A6 better. But I need to do back to back testing and maybe I've just spent so many years on the A6 that any change is a negative and I need more time on the A7's.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:42 am 
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LJ32 wrote:
Billy.
Ill take you up on that,
On record... me at 8 you at 9?
What region are you in? I would really like to come out to one of your regions races so we can discuss. Want to see if you still run that mouth in person.


At least years West Nationals Bill, in his ST2 car, caught and overtook all but one of the ST1 cars in the field. These guys have +150hp at least over us. Likewise at this years West Nationals Mike McAleenan in his ST3 car caught and overtook all but one or two ST2 cars.

I am not trying to weigh in on "who will win" in this contest of yours, but only to highlight that there is much more to going fast than having a specific amount of hp, torque, weight distribution, center of gravity, or whatever other argument de jour is going around. The discrepancy in driver skill, chassis development, budget, and overall car preparation at the club level is so enormous that arguing over 20hp is close to irrelevant.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:15 pm 
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how do you define "usable power band?" So we will be taking, for example, hp@4000rpm + hp@8000 / 2 to get the avg hp?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:19 pm 
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LJ32 wrote:
how do you define "usable power band?" So we will be taking, for example, hp@4000rpm + hp@8000 / 2 to get the avg hp?

No. Patience--working out the proposed wording of the rules now. I'll post them, but they are subject to revision until the official version is posted on or before December 1st.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:27 pm 
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Amir, you are correct. Once a driver reaches either his/her own driving limits, or the car reaches it limits of grip and traction, more power has significantly diminishing returns--there are limited straight sections of track, and spinning tires without grip don't make the car go faster. But, until those limits are reached, more power under the curve (even a little) can mean significantly better lap times.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:53 pm 
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Rule proposals are posted: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=131199


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:14 am 
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I think the ratio should be 7.5 for ST2. Being able to run a car in ST3 and ST2 should not be a goal of the rules and class separation should be clear. Fact is without splitters and wings it is just about impossible to podium in ST2 so we all have them. A lot of us would just pull added weight out of the car. We have enough power so carrying around 250 pounds of ballast seems ridiculous.


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