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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:11 am 
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kpearson wrote:
The final ST4 rules didn't come out until around the October/November timeframe in 2016 for the 2017 season. I would wager you are looking at about the same timeframe for the upcoming ST classes.


Which would be a little late - I think ST-4 is a brilliant formula - but its going to take an extra season to get its legs underneath it because of how late the formula came out.

The biggest question I think everyone is waiting for is Aero - Yay or Nay for ST5/6?


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:38 am 
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I'm a non-aero user and have swayed in my aero acceptance for the lower classes.

I'm for the aero as long as there's a heavy modifier applied. It would be a shame to have cars already competing in lower classes, with no obvious outliers, be forces to have a complete redo of their car. This is especially true for cars running under reclasses with aero as they essentially already have a heavy modifier applied.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:18 am 
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Checking in for updates! It would be fantastic to get the rules next month so we all have ~6 months to at least plan all our builds for ST5/6.

Questions I'm curious on:
- Will there be chassis modifiers?
- What will the base adjusted wt/HP ratios for 5 and 6?
- What will the tire sizes be for 5 and 6? Will it be the same for both?
- Will the competition weights and modifiers in 1-4 carry over to 5/6?
- Will there be modifiers for different tire type compounds outside of DOT and non-DOT?
- Will aero be allowed, if so will there be modifiers for aero?
- Will there be modifiers for everything currently listed in PT rules sections 5.3D/E/F?


I'm sure there's others that are wondering this as well :D

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:10 am 
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flier129 wrote:
Checking in for updates! It would be fantastic to get the rules next month so we all have ~6 months to at least plan all our builds for ST5/6.

Questions I'm curious on:
- Will there be chassis modifiers?
- What will the base adjusted wt/HP ratios for 5 and 6?
- What will the tire sizes be for 5 and 6? Will it be the same for both?
- Will the competition weights and modifiers in 1-4 carry over to 5/6?
- Will there be modifiers for different tire type compounds outside of DOT and non-DOT?
- Will aero be allowed, if so will there be modifiers for aero?
- Will there be modifiers for everything currently listed in PT rules sections 5.3D/E/F?


I'm sure there's others that are wondering this as well :D


Hopefully (for me) the ratio's will follow the current scale. If that were the case they would be 14.00 and 16.00 respectively.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:29 am 
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bionicbelly wrote:
flier129 wrote:
Checking in for updates! It would be fantastic to get the rules next month so we all have ~6 months to at least plan all our builds for ST5/6.

Questions I'm curious on:
- Will there be chassis modifiers?
- What will the base adjusted wt/HP ratios for 5 and 6?
- What will the tire sizes be for 5 and 6? Will it be the same for both?
- Will the competition weights and modifiers in 1-4 carry over to 5/6?
- Will there be modifiers for different tire type compounds outside of DOT and non-DOT?
- Will aero be allowed, if so will there be modifiers for aero?
- Will there be modifiers for everything currently listed in PT rules sections 5.3D/E/F?


I'm sure there's others that are wondering this as well :D


Hopefully (for me) the ratio's will follow the current scale. If that were the case they would be 14.00 and 16.00 respectively.


Well if I had to guess, 5 will be 14.5:1 avg since C is 14.5:1 avg this year. This makes me wonder if 6 will be 17:1 avg. If those numbers happen to be the ratios, 5/6 will be a tad faster next year..... depending on all the other modifiers of course.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:00 am 
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I recommend adopting the current 14.5:1 weight:avg. power currently being used in TTC. This will work for a lot of folks. I like the TT4 setup and look forward to TT5. It could be nice from a class size perspective to merge both TTD and TTC into TT5 while allowing the current cars to remain competitive. Allowances/penalties (discussed below) could help balance that field.

I recommend an additional (but reasonable) "+10 tire" modifier in TT5 to help keep costs down and promote competition. TT4 is currently using -1.0 modified for "autocross" compound tires. I'd recommend dis-allowing autocross tires in TT5 (not that many folks in TTC/D/E are using them...?) and adopting a -0.5 to -1.0 modifier (or whatever value the calculations deem fair) in TT5 for the current +10 tires (Hoosier R7 et al) to level the playing field for those on +4 and +5 tires.

Many of us in TTE/TTD/TTC are using Bridgestone RE71R / Maxxis RC1 / Toyo R888 / Toyo RR and are pretty close in lap times, but when a guy shows up on Hoosier R7 it's pretty much decided. Most of the new folks I talk to who are interested in getting in TT are put off by Hoosiers because they are street driving street cars and can't afford that budget, and it deters them from even participating ("well, I can't win without hoosiers, so why try?"). So at least a fair modifier would help engage more people.

I'm not for banning aero, because a bunch of guys already have it and their cars are set up for it. I wouldn't want to push them away. But I do want it fairly accounted for.

Ideas for "modifiers" in TT5 (in the spirit of a cost-controlled class):
- Use the TT4 aero modifier as a penalty rather than credit (it's easier to slow down (de-mod, ballast) the fast guys than increase power on slow guys)
- Ban "autocross tires", add an additional "+10 tire" modifier
- Small credits for OEM suspension or brakes or driveline? (stock sways, no sphericals, factory LSD, etc)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:29 am 
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Can we get any info on where the committee or group is leaning?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:01 am 
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Matt@NCM wrote:
Can we get any info on where the committee or group is leaning?


+1

or maybe the 2018 rules

or an ETA of the 2018 rules?

Pretty please?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:34 pm 
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flier129 wrote:
Matt@NCM wrote:
Can we get any info on where the committee or group is leaning?


+1

or maybe the 2018 rules

or an ETA of the 2018 rules?

Pretty please?


+2 I just want to know what I can buy for my car! I'm scared to do anything to it, then have to redo.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:50 pm 
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hufflepuff wrote:
I recommend adopting the current 14.5:1 weight:avg. power currently being used in TTC. This will work for a lot of folks. I like the TT4 setup and look forward to TT5. It could be nice from a class size perspective to merge both TTD and TTC into TT5 while allowing the current cars to remain competitive. Allowances/penalties (discussed below) could help balance that field.

I recommend an additional (but reasonable) "+10 tire" modifier in TT5 to help keep costs down and promote competition. TT4 is currently using -1.0 modified for "autocross" compound tires. I'd recommend dis-allowing autocross tires in TT5 (not that many folks in TTC/D/E are using them...?) and adopting a -0.5 to -1.0 modifier (or whatever value the calculations deem fair) in TT5 for the current +10 tires (Hoosier R7 et al) to level the playing field for those on +4 and +5 tires.

Many of us in TTE/TTD/TTC are using Bridgestone RE71R / Maxxis RC1 / Toyo R888 / Toyo RR and are pretty close in lap times, but when a guy shows up on Hoosier R7 it's pretty much decided. Most of the new folks I talk to who are interested in getting in TT are put off by Hoosiers because they are street driving street cars and can't afford that budget, and it deters them from even participating ("well, I can't win without hoosiers, so why try?"). So at least a fair modifier would help engage more people.

I'm not for banning aero, because a bunch of guys already have it and their cars are set up for it. I wouldn't want to push them away. But I do want it fairly accounted for.

Ideas for "modifiers" in TT5 (in the spirit of a cost-controlled class):
- Use the TT4 aero modifier as a penalty rather than credit (it's easier to slow down (de-mod, ballast) the fast guys than increase power on slow guys)
- Ban "autocross tires", add an additional "+10 tire" modifier
- Small credits for OEM suspension or brakes or driveline? (stock sways, no sphericals, factory LSD, etc)


very well said... especially with the tire part. Without a modifier to "equalize" the Hoosier advantage due to both it being a grippier compound and the laughable width ratings, we might be closing the doors to competitively using and promoting other tire manufacturers. I am a fan of Maxxis due to their generous contingency program and well priced RC1's that work great on track and wear well. They are great option for racers on a budget and are very popular in our NASA region. For most TT5/6 racers they would be looking at about $500 less for a set of RC1's than R7's.


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