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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:11 am 
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Quoted for truthfulness, if the spec Miata 1.6's run these brakes then there is no need for them ......if you want brake disparity, look at nx200 vs se-r brakes.... Same base class weight ( they are asked exact car except for two things, nx has better shape and Bigger brakes.......yet they are same base class, sometimes that's the breaks... Also if Greg were to give you Ptd no *, that could have huge impact on pte, Ptd,ptc, etc, more to consider than you trying to squeeze a Miata into Ptf when it should be pte car


cucamelsmd15 wrote:
gkmccready wrote:

Honestly, you're the one and only person saying that. Literally everybody else is claiming the 1.8 brakes are a "huge upgrade" and "as important as moving to a 1.8 diff." And it is important to note that even with a 1.8 motor and driveline swap the 1.6 car needs to take those points if they take the brakes to become BTM equivalent with a '94-'97 car...


Sure, the 1.8 brakes are a huge upgrade, if youre running >180whp with aero. Otherwise, its more mass thats not needed. The SM guys seem to get by just fine with 1.6 brakes and no issues. The size difference is 3/4". Mazda upgraded the size when they added another 200lbs to the car. Unless youre spending the points on the Sport brake package, youre wasting your time IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:47 am 
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gkmccready wrote:
cucamelsmd15 wrote:
gkmccready wrote:
+2 1.8L Caliper Brackets


Why do you keep taking points for this. They add nothing to an otherwise stock car (and by stock, I mean N/A of whatever version <135whp with no aero).


Honestly, you're the one and only person saying that. Literally everybody else is claiming the 1.8 brakes are a "huge upgrade" and "as important as moving to a 1.8 diff." And it is important to note that even with a 1.8 motor and driveline swap the 1.6 car needs to take those points if they take the brakes to become BTM equivalent with a '94-'97 car...

Not the only person. Has the "everybody" you refer to actually DONE the swaps? I doubt it. Whoever says moving to the 1.8 diff is a "huge upgrade" doesn't know what they are talking about. Unless they did it to match ratios to revs for a specific track or speed target it's a waste of $1k for the parts. Ask me how I know, go ahead. You'll get 10x the benefit by keeping an open diff and running Hankook or Goodyear R compounds. If I wasn't so lazy I'd put my 1.6 LSD back in my car before I run again.

There are some noisy folks here that like to complain a lot, but the classes are very fair and you are not going to be able to get a super edge by trying to do what you're doing here. Yet again I will show proof in the form of the results from PT/TT D at Nationals last year - the fastest top laps of 1st and 2nd in TT and 2nd in PT were like .1 of a second apart. Those cars were a fwd turbo Mazda, a s/c Miata, and an awd Mitsubishi Eclipse. That's across TT AND PT. The one outlier, PT 1, was quite a bit faster, was caught by a points change on tires in the new rules that just came out. But there's no guarantee that car won't be just as fast or faster this year. You can kill yourself with excel formulas and the like trying to optimize your car but at the end of the day you WILL come out close to where you should be.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:50 am 
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nasa ser wrote:
Quoted for truthfulness, if the spec Miata 1.6's run these brakes then there is no need for them ......if you want brake disparity, look at nx200 vs se-r brakes.... Same base class weight ( they are asked exact car except for two things, nx has better shape and Bigger brakes.......yet they are same base class, sometimes that's the breaks... Also if Greg were to give you Ptd no *, that could have huge impact on pte, Ptd,ptc, etc, more to consider than you trying to squeeze a Miata into Ptf when it should be pte car


I hear ya. Remember, I'm not trying to squeeze in to PTF, I'd just like an "updated" '90-'93 Miata to be on-par with the '94-'97 in PTE when they are built exactly the same. I'm fine to work within the existing rules, I'm just trying to bring this out in to the light so the classing of the 1.8 vs 1.8-swap discrepancy can be confirmed as intentional. At the same time I wanted to point out that a 1.6 built to the extent of PT rules (in either PTF** or PTE, without a dyno reclass) doesn't appear like it will be competitive.

It sounds like this is a common situation, though, across models and brands.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:09 pm 
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gkmccready wrote:
nasa ser wrote:
Quoted for truthfulness, if the spec Miata 1.6's run these brakes then there is no need for them ......if you want brake disparity, look at nx200 vs se-r brakes.... Same base class weight ( they are asked exact car except for two things, nx has better shape and Bigger brakes.......yet they are same base class, sometimes that's the breaks... Also if Greg were to give you Ptd no *, that could have huge impact on pte, Ptd,ptc, etc, more to consider than you trying to squeeze a Miata into Ptf when it should be pte car


I hear ya. Remember, I'm not trying to squeeze in to PTF, I'd just like an "updated" '90-'93 Miata to be on-par with the '94-'97 in PTE when they are built exactly the same. I'm fine to work within the existing rules, I'm just trying to bring this out in to the light so the classing of the 1.8 vs 1.8-swap discrepancy can be confirmed as intentional. At the same time I wanted to point out that a 1.6 built to the extent of PT rules (in either PTF** or PTE, without a dyno reclass) doesn't appear like it will be competitive.

It sounds like this is a common situation, though, across models and brands.



it is, Greg can't make all cars equal.........all models have their warts....some worse than others.......maybe a 1.6 points car can't be competitive......but a dyno re-class car can be, as i said with a dyno re-class you can do any more you want.........if i had the budget i would build a 2.2 motor for the sentra, find a nx2000, swap everything over, save myself 2 points, make more tq at the same hp levels and be faster than my car is now..........of course it probably still wouldn't beat Sam's civics at mid -ohio :?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:26 pm 
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vpnwiz wrote:
Not the only person. Has the "everybody" you refer to actually DONE the swaps? I doubt it. Whoever says moving to the 1.8 diff is a "huge upgrade" doesn't know what they are talking about. Unless they did it to match ratios to revs for a specific track or speed target it's a waste of $1k for the parts. Ask me how I know, go ahead. You'll get 10x the benefit by keeping an open diff and running Hankook or Goodyear R compounds. If I wasn't so lazy I'd put my 1.6 LSD back in my car before I run again.

There are some noisy folks here that like to complain a lot, but the classes are very fair and you are not going to be able to get a super edge by trying to do what you're doing here. Yet again I will show proof in the form of the results from PT/TT D at Nationals last year - the fastest top laps of 1st and 2nd in TT and 2nd in PT were like .1 of a second apart. Those cars were a fwd turbo Mazda, a s/c Miata, and an awd Mitsubishi Eclipse. That's across TT AND PT. The one outlier, PT 1, was quite a bit faster, was caught by a points change on tires in the new rules that just came out. But there's no guarantee that car won't be just as fast or faster this year. You can kill yourself with excel formulas and the like trying to optimize your car but at the end of the day you WILL come out close to where you should be.


+1

I run a 1.6 diff 4.3>4.1 all day. Edit: It's a mazdaspeed (motorsports) 1.6 diff, clutch type...

The 1.8 brakes only add pad size, and a small increase in rotor size. Being they use the same caliper other then pad wear and heat there isnt much benefit. If you're cooking pads, run ducts to them. I don't see a 100hp miata needing upgraded brakes.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:40 am 
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If you are going to take points for brakes, switch to a 4 piston caliper. Increase you rotor size and take remove weight. A 4 piston from a second gen rx7 will probably bolt up. Then you just need to find the proper rotor diameter and offset to work on the Miata.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:51 am 
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Vinny wrote:

+1

I run a 1.6 diff 4.3>4.1 all day. Edit: It's a mazdaspeed (motorsports) 1.6 diff, clutch type...

The 1.8 brakes only add pad size, and a small increase in rotor size. Being they use the same caliper other then pad wear and heat there isnt much benefit. If you're cooking pads, run ducts to them. I don't see a 100hp miata needing upgraded brakes.


Pick up a 99+ 4.3 diff or swap in a 4.3 r&p into a 4.1 diff. I did the latter.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:34 pm 
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cucamelsmd15 wrote:
Pick up a 99+ 4.3 diff or swap in a 4.3 r&p into a 4.1 diff. I did the latter.

I have a 4.3 and the only benefit is that it puts more weight lower in the car. I still get wheelspin in the same places and I liked the way my 1.6 clutch LSD felt from the driver seat a little better. One of these days I may spring for a "real" LSD replacement like the OS Giken or similar, though I'm not convinced it would really work and that's a lot of money to experiment with. But if I could get rid of wheelspin around tight corners I could probably drop a full second a lap...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:49 pm 
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vpnwiz wrote:
cucamelsmd15 wrote:
Pick up a 99+ 4.3 diff or swap in a 4.3 r&p into a 4.1 diff. I did the latter.

I have a 4.3 and the only benefit is that it puts more weight lower in the car. I still get wheelspin in the same places and I liked the way my 1.6 clutch LSD felt from the driver seat a little better. One of these days I may spring for a "real" LSD replacement like the OS Giken or similar, though I'm not convinced it would really work and that's a lot of money to experiment with. But if I could get rid of wheelspin around tight corners I could probably drop a full second a lap...

Everyone Ive talked to with an OSG says they are magic.

The 7" R&P has a significant strength advantage over the 6", which is known to break at stock power levels. I believe the SM guys like the phrase "ticking time bomb"...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:33 pm 
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my 1.6 has been in my car that makes 150ft/lbs at the wheels for 3 years.

I think the spec miata guys run into issues from the unsprung 3 puck clutches that they run, much more drive train shock and harsh engagement...I guess every ounce counts?

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