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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:17 pm 
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I look forward to watching you guys race. I will say, however, that this is the only sanctioning body that I have encountered where the same car can be legal in one region yet illegal in another...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Of course we all want to go really fast , but we are a racing class not time attack , all the cars are supposed to be equal , and every racing class anywhere being btcc , wtcc, grand am , Rolex, you name it have a way to try to make all the cars level at one point.
If you want a super fast car why not allow turbos or supercharges or any power adder since the idea would be to have the fastest car no matter what.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:30 pm 
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I raced with World Challenge, Grand-AM, and Rolex and there were no HP caps. There was a rule book in place that each car had to adhere to, and that's pretty much it. Certain cars were better than others and that's just the way it was. The closest thing I've encountered to HP caps would probably be rewards weight which I think is a fundamentally better system regardless.

In response to your statement about forced induction: if that's going to be your standpoint, why allow motor swaps at all? Should the rules be re-written to state that every HC should be a 1992 Civic DX with a D15B7 as a powerplant? It would certainly be cheap and all of the cars would theoretically be the same, assuming we make them all run the same suspension, brakes, etc. At that point, I think I would personally just go buy a Miata.

I didn't ever say that I wanted a "super fast" car -- I was simply stating that I shouldn't be punished for building a car to the rules.

I understand what the HP caps are trying to accomplish -- I just feel that it isn't a particularly effective way to do it and , consequently, I don't agree with the rule.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Don't put words where there is none, I didn't say to allow forced induction , read my post . If you raced all those series then you know that the rules for each car are created specifically to make the cars as equal on the track as possible. You are dealing with 10 different manufactures and engines , here the easiest way to equal the field is hp and weight, very simple approach I think.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:56 pm 
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you all have valid points.most pro series do not have HP cap, but do have some sort of mandatory ecu or full data system required. Not sure if all HC 2 want to have to invest in mandatory data system or ECU,if you race in GRAND-AM you already know the cost.

HP limit is a simple way to even the field without huge cost on all sides including NASA staff. let's not forget, that the last thing we want to do every sunday afternoon is a tear down or cams check, or oil check, or fuel check, or rods check, or ecu download, or injectors check, or intake check, or manifold check, you get my point :)

the fact we are dealing with multiple engine setup is very hard and time consuming to monitor in full details.

adding reward weight is an other valid option, we just have issue with max weight before driver safety become a major issue (and not talking about insurance), but it has been talk about in the past. again takes staff to calculate weight for each race etc.. more staff needed. Maybe with all the HC posting going on online we could get more volunteer to help at each event. :)

we are trying to improve, and bring back good clean competition. the future will tell.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:03 pm 
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PhoenixR wrote:
assuming an engine is built within the limits of the rules, there should not be a horsepower limit.


Agreed.

PhoenixR wrote:
If HC was intended to be all about driver skill and budget (and not one's ability to build and develop a car), it should have been made a spec series. There are way too many variables for something like a HP cap to actually have any real effect. Some people are still going to outspend others, people will still have high-dollar race engines, and certain cars will be quicker than others. Racing to me is about who can go the fastest, not who can go the fastest while spending the least amount of money. If budget is an issue, H4 is still offered as a National class.


Excellent point.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:09 pm 
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civicek wrote:
Don't put words where there is none, I didn't say to allow forced induction , read my post . If you raced all those series then you know that the rules for each car are created specifically to make the cars as equal on the track as possible. You are dealing with 10 different manufactures and engines , here the easiest way to equal the field is hp and weight, very simple approach I think.


I'm sorry -- I wasn't trying to be a dick and put words in anyone's mouth. I was just using an extreme example in an attempt to make a point.

I absolutely agree that the rules should level the playing field as much as possible. It is just my opinion that the HP caps are a really bad way to go about doing it. If cost and fairness are the two real factors, wouldn't it make more sense just to make everyone run stock motors? That eliminates the expense of cams, cam gears, intake manis, TBs, valvetrains, etc and would serve to eliminate the "who can outspend whom" game.

I know full-well how the rules are written in each of those series. Obviously there are huge efforts made to prevent one team or platform from having an advantage over another. The rules limit what we can do to the cars by way of engine/drivetrain, brakes, shocks, aero, weight, and so on and so forth. In extreme instances we have also had to deal with restrictor plates. Even then, nobody said "you can only make XXX amount of power" and nobody said it for a reason. It is a backward approach to trying to keep costs down and it is also very difficult to enforce.

Again, I am not meaning to offend anyone whatsover -- I am simply stating my opinion on the subject.

Regards,
Tony

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:09 pm 
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deleted double post

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:15 pm 
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So I run H2 and so does Joe Shmoe... Joe Shmoe keeps beating me so lets make him slower instead of me going faster. What are we communist?

So engine development has just been wiped from H2, but 1 can still spend bookoo on suspension, aero, chassis stiffening, brakes, wheels, tires, etc. Im just saying many stepped into H2 with the perception that it was the easiest to build the car field with a wide variety modifications and from there the development of ones car and driving skills could begin. Per the allowable amount of engine modifications in the rules an engine, any engine, can only make X amount of hp/torq anyway. H2 still does allow you to develop your engine but only regionally(SoCal exempt now). If there is a HP cap then why even allow engine mods in the first place? Also isnt what you can do to the car set apart the different classes in the first place? Maybe there should only be H4 and H1.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:19 pm 
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looks like most my points were already made.

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