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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:34 am 
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joe barile wrote:
at the moment, i personally am unable to view the driver forum showing the reasoning behind it.




You are on the list Joe, so you should have access.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Location: hella norcal, socal, phoenix, taipei, tokyo
PhoenixR wrote:
I understand the concept behind the hp caps, and in certain circumstances, I could see it as being beneficial. However, I do not think HC is one of those circumstances. I personally think that the HP caps will serve to increase the amount of money I will spend over the course of the year.

When I first built my car (almost 4 years ago), I chose the b16 knowing full well that I would give up torque to the higher displacement motors but be able to make up the gap on the top end. My old, near stock b16 dynoed at 176 whp and made 110 ft/lbs of torque. I gave up near 30 ft/lbs of torque on a b20 but also had a significant horsepower advantage. Restricted to 165 whp (and assuming I don't lose any torque in the process), my hp advantage over that same b20 just shrank to a mere 5. Giving up 30 ft/lbs of torque doesn't seem like a fair trade off for 5 whp. Now I am in a position where I feel the need to develop a completely new engine platform just to stay competitive.

If HC was intended to be all about driver skill and budget (and not one's ability to build and develop a car), it should have been made a spec series. There are way too many variables for something like a HP cap to actually have any real effect. Some people are still going to outspend others, people will still have high-dollar race engines, and certain cars will be quicker than others. Racing to me is about who can go the fastest, not who can go the fastest while spending the least amount of money. If budget is an issue, H4 is still offered as a National class.

Hopefully I'm not offending anybody -- I just felt the need to voice my opinion due to the fact that I have been dwelling on this issue for some time now.

This is all just my .02.

Tony Lisa


I'm late to the party and just read the SoCal HP cap. I'm with Tony... having a cap is absurd! You already have the mod limitations and if something is really wrong you fix it there, maybe adjust the weights a little bit but not impose a max hp limit. Then engine building skills and the parts selection plays a huge role in dyno output. Not everyone can afford at $1300 custom header but some racers will always have a bigger budget than you. LIVE with it. It isn't illegal to over spend as long as the parts are in compliance with the rules.

And I noticed something strange, why is B20B at 160 and B20B1/B20Z1 at 158? 2 whp different? really? The built H2 B20B long block I bought off Mike Lock use to make ~160 whp at BlackTrax. But that is with a crappy header. I imagine with a good header and a re-tune it will likely be above 160 whp...

I can also tell you a D16Z6 built to the rule limit of H2 should be above 140 whp as well. Who came up with these whp cap figures??

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:12 pm 
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ghettoracer wrote:
PhoenixR wrote:
I understand the concept behind the hp caps, and in certain circumstances, I could see it as being beneficial. However, I do not think HC is one of those circumstances. I personally think that the HP caps will serve to increase the amount of money I will spend over the course of the year.

When I first built my car (almost 4 years ago), I chose the b16 knowing full well that I would give up torque to the higher displacement motors but be able to make up the gap on the top end. My old, near stock b16 dynoed at 176 whp and made 110 ft/lbs of torque. I gave up near 30 ft/lbs of torque on a b20 but also had a significant horsepower advantage. Restricted to 165 whp (and assuming I don't lose any torque in the process), my hp advantage over that same b20 just shrank to a mere 5. Giving up 30 ft/lbs of torque doesn't seem like a fair trade off for 5 whp. Now I am in a position where I feel the need to develop a completely new engine platform just to stay competitive.

If HC was intended to be all about driver skill and budget (and not one's ability to build and develop a car), it should have been made a spec series. There are way too many variables for something like a HP cap to actually have any real effect. Some people are still going to outspend others, people will still have high-dollar race engines, and certain cars will be quicker than others. Racing to me is about who can go the fastest, not who can go the fastest while spending the least amount of money. If budget is an issue, H4 is still offered as a National class.

Hopefully I'm not offending anybody -- I just felt the need to voice my opinion due to the fact that I have been dwelling on this issue for some time now.

This is all just my .02.

Tony Lisa


I'm late to the party and just read the SoCal HP cap. I'm with Tony... having a cap is absurd! You already have the mod limitations and if something is really wrong you fix it there, maybe adjust the weights a little bit but not impose a max hp limit. Then engine building skills and the parts selection plays a huge role in dyno output. Not everyone can afford at $1300 custom header but some racers will always have a bigger budget than you. LIVE with it. It isn't illegal to over spend as long as the parts are in compliance with the rules.

And I noticed something strange, why is B20B at 160 and B20B1/B20Z1 at 158? 2 whp different? really? The built H2 B20B long block I bought off Mike Lock use to make ~160 whp at BlackTrax. But that is with a crappy header. I imagine with a good header and a re-tune it will likely be above 160 whp...

I can also tell you a D16Z6 built to the rule limit of H2 should be above 140 whp as well. Who came up with these whp cap figures??

Are we ever going to see your car in a Nor-cal race?

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:14 pm 
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what's the car count? honestly i'm not all that motivated to do H2. if Ron and Donna were running that was my motivation for picking up Mike's motor. but everyone's watching their budget. so am i. my first committed race this year is at the 24 hours of LeMons in late June at BW with a V8 Volvo built by a friend...

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:38 am 
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ghettoracer wrote:
what's the car count? honestly i'm not all that motivated to do H2. if Ron and Donna were running that was my motivation for picking up Mike's motor. but everyone's watching their budget. so am i. my first committed race this year is at the 24 hours of LeMons in late June at BW with a V8 Volvo built by a friend...

This weekend:
me
Meris
Paul Garcia
Chris Smith?
Andrew
Tom Lepper

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Posts: 235
Location: Sacramento, California
I wish I could race with you guys this weekend! Have not had a working car...new engine is going in as we speak. It will be an "H2 and a half:)" H23vtec, stock. You guys should all do the NCRC race at thunderhill June 30, July 1. I'm hoping to race NASA at t-hill in August.




wic wrote:
ghettoracer wrote:
what's the car count? honestly i'm not all that motivated to do H2. if Ron and Donna were running that was my motivation for picking up Mike's motor. but everyone's watching their budget. so am i. my first committed race this year is at the 24 hours of LeMons in late June at BW with a V8 Volvo built by a friend...

This weekend:
me
Meris
Paul Garcia
Chris Smith?
Andrew
Tom Lepper

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:23 am 
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
wic wrote:
Are we ever going to see your car in a Nor-cal race?


all regions should have the same rules for the same series. doesnt matter if i never see youre region and if i do then why i am changing my car for a "regional" set of rules...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:03 am 
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H2 HP Caps still lick balls... 90% humidity out sweaty hairy old man wrinkly ones. Yes there is some porn I just cant watch... like HP CAPS and HC.

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