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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:36 am 
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Start of 2012 season all the info you need so please read :)

Let's all get ready for Button Willow !!!!!

First off,some new Socal supplemental Racing regulations: Better be aware of those :)
http://socal.drivenasa.com/2012SoCalSuppsv1.pdf

Please note the HC 25.4.1 :)
HONDA CHALLENGE 1) 25.4.1 - The responsibility for the decision to pass another car, and to do it safely, rests with the
overtaking driver. The overtaken driver should be aware that he/she is being passed and must not impede the pass by blocking. Any overtaking driver who makes contact with another vehicle will be subject to penalties. PENALTY> Reposition behind vehicle where contact occurred during passing.


Starting at Button Willow in April 2012 we will implement the national Horse power limit for H2 ONLY

Refer to page 17 for the horse power limit 2012 HONDA CHALLENGE
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Honda-Challenge.pdf


You may bring a dyno sheet conform to the rules or dyno your car at button willow. The cost at the track is $85 for 3 pulls.

Again this is only for so.cal not for any other region. the choice was made by so.cal racers so I do not really understand why so much issues from other region.
this is not a reflection what is going on in HC in any other place than So.cal, again rules change was made from HC2 Racers that participates in most of the races in So.cal


I just wanted to remind all of you guys how great of contingency programs we have at the regional level, we should be proud of Jeremy great job.
Please make sure to print and fill up your Annual tech form, I'll be at the track Friday afternoon if you need tech stickers.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/forms/annual_race_tech.pdf

Here is a recap of the contingency we have for our regional races, makes sure to have the form with you just come to see me at the end of the weekend for signature.


HPD info:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingenc ... _Info1.pdf


HPD Form:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingenc ... _Form1.pdf

Toyo Info:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingenc ... y_Info.pdf

Toyo Form:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingenc ... ces_v1.pdf

Hawk:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingenc ... _Final.pdf


See you at the track
Benoit Pecqueur
Here my cell if you need to contact, cry,bitch at me LOL
213 703 4700

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So.Cal Honda Challenge Series Leader
AEM,HASPORT,SPECIAL PROJECTS,GEAR-X,Portflow,Bisimoto


Last edited by realride on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:24 am 
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Starting at Button Willow in April 2012 we will implement the national Horse power limit for H2 ONLY

soooo lame. rules such as these will bring the downfall of HC over time. im new to the game but i see nothing good to come of this. i was hoping to make it out to SoCal later this year but screw that.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:40 am 
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Yep -- so much for running any SoCal races this year.

It's disappointing to see that this rule is now being enforced at the regional level. It's bad enough that it was instituted for Nationals in the first place. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:21 am 
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I' m sure you spend a lot of time thinking and analyzing your point of view, and I do understand you have the right to choose which series you run.
I do intent myself to come and run with you guys next time at chuckwalla, I was not able to be there for the first one this, I was building my new k24 H2 motor, and yes I will be happy to run it with any horse power limit in AZ region, as long as you think it's fair for me to do so.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:40 am 
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I think Leland's point was more that: assuming an engine is built within the limits of the rules, there should not be a horsepower limit.

In all of the various forms of motorsports that I have run, I have never encountered horsepower caps. In fact, I decided against going to Nationals last year because I didn't agree with the rule. If enforcement of this rule trickles down to the regional level...I dunno...time to part out or park the car, I suppose. I've always enjoyed the engineering and development aspect of motorsports and these are things that are apparently frowned upon.

Instead of forcing everyone to pull timing and slow their cars down, why don't we just make a rule giving everyone the blue ribbons that they apparently want so badly.

There will always be some cars that are faster than others -- that's a simple fact. Constantly f*cking with the rules will serve no purpose other than driving competitors away and killing the series.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:00 pm 
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I agree with the philosophy of motorsport and club racing, but you should ask your AZ leader he came down and had fun with us in Fontana, maybe he can give some insight on the power difference he might has felt at Fontana.
Again there are no perfect solutions to any given issue by trying to find solution for so.cal highly competitive field and highly talented drivers.

here for you some fun in fontana what racing is :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BfcBaK8 ... r_embedded

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Look at it this way and hopefully this will help you guys see why it is good to have a hp cap .
If you have a cap specially at nationals that gives a chance for people that otherwise can't do a full build a chance to compete at the same level than a guy that has taken the build to the max.
Don't forget that budget is in consideration here. Let's say you have x or y engine and you just have a mild build, let's say you making 165 hp and just so happens it is your cap. Now here I am with the same engine making 15-20 hp more than you , how ? How about spending another 5 to 10 thousand just taking it to the max of the rules. That wouldn't be fair for any of you guys for me to run away and lap you.
Also the cap discourages people to spend mega dollars in their engine, at the end everybody wins since it is a level field . Now it becomes a matter of driving ability not a matter of hp.
I hope that you guys don't get discouraged and come and join the fun and hopefully we can pay the visit.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:53 pm 
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civicek wrote:
Don't forget that budget is in consideration here.

I agree with this.

However...Honda Challenge is not Performance Touring. In PT I can build a car to the max of the rules AND my budget. (If you need me to explain this, I can.) In HC, if I don't build it to the max of the rules that is my own fault. They are outlined for me to follow, depending on which engine/chassis I choose.

civicek wrote:
How about spending another 5 to 10 thousand just taking it to the max of the rules. That wouldn't be fair for any of you guys for me to run away and lap you.

If I choose to build a budget mid-pack car I know what to expect out of the car. I also know what to expect out of myself. I also know what the limits of the rules are. Therefore, I should not complain and tell everybody else to lower their whp to let me catch up.

Now to the last part...

civicek wrote:
Also the cap discourages people to spend mega dollars in their engine, at the end everybody wins since it is a level field . Now it becomes a matter of driving ability not a matter of hp.

If this were the case, I would build a Spec E30 or 944 Spec. (Spec Miata doesn't count because it takes mega bucks to run up front.)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:04 pm 
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I understand the concept behind the hp caps, and in certain circumstances, I could see it as being beneficial. However, I do not think HC is one of those circumstances. I personally think that the HP caps will serve to increase the amount of money I will spend over the course of the year.

When I first built my car (almost 4 years ago), I chose the b16 knowing full well that I would give up torque to the higher displacement motors but be able to make up the gap on the top end. My old, near stock b16 dynoed at 176 whp and made 110 ft/lbs of torque. I gave up near 30 ft/lbs of torque on a b20 but also had a significant horsepower advantage. Restricted to 165 whp (and assuming I don't lose any torque in the process), my hp advantage over that same b20 just shrank to a mere 5. Giving up 30 ft/lbs of torque doesn't seem like a fair trade off for 5 whp. Now I am in a position where I feel the need to develop a completely new engine platform just to stay competitive.

If HC was intended to be all about driver skill and budget (and not one's ability to build and develop a car), it should have been made a spec series. There are way too many variables for something like a HP cap to actually have any real effect. Some people are still going to outspend others, people will still have high-dollar race engines, and certain cars will be quicker than others. Racing to me is about who can go the fastest, not who can go the fastest while spending the least amount of money. If budget is an issue, H4 is still offered as a National class.

Hopefully I'm not offending anybody -- I just felt the need to voice my opinion due to the fact that I have been dwelling on this issue for some time now.

This is all just my .02.

Tony Lisa

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:13 pm 
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But you have to remember that h2 is basically h4 with a swap and you should be able to go to the junk yard and swap an engine and be competitive.
It should not be about spending a bunch of money to run in the front and that is what's going on.
All we want to do is to give anyone entering an event here an equal chance to win , it's simple . Why do you want to just build a car to run around in the tail when for the same money you can have fun in a battle for the front.
Now this was an agreement between drivers not an order coming from higher command.
Let's see what happens maybe we will have awesome battles.

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DK Racing, Bisimoto, insane shafts, Purol


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